I Hate Team Sports

[alaterdate]

With what (comparatively) little I have played of Final Fantasy XIV, I cannot deny that I find it enjoyable for the most part. The biggest issue I have with it is that:

I cannot stand doing dungeons with strangers.
Even in a low-stakes DPS role I can't shake my life long aversion for being forced to participate in team activities with people I hardly know. Whether it was sports or team quizzes, I have always hated it. I don't like relying on others or having them rely on me when winning is at stake. I suspect I would have a better time if I could co-op with a few friends, but only one of them shares a server with me and he's already ahead of me. After seeing the SLOG that is ARR I would not ask him to re-suffer such an experience. So I still dread any instances of group work on the horizon. I like the game and the story (kind of—so far), but I don't think this is the game for me at all! I am attached to my character though :^\

The other problem with the game is the SHEER amount of talking that I have to read. I swear I've spent hours long sessions simply reading irrelevant dialogue and walking back and forth. In fact so much so that I have developed contempt for Minfilia and the cursed Waking Sands. The most egregious part probably had to be the patches of gameplay between the end of ARR and the beginning of Heavensward. It drove me bonkers. Here's an artist's rendition of my WoL seeing how many more dialogue quests he had to go through.

Ca'irbre Gets Trolled

I'm totally gonna write more fanfiction though 💅

Comments

[sideways]

I liked matching up with strangers alright in Destiny, but that tends to involve less strategy than proper dungeons, I think.

The art got a snortlaugh outta me.

[alaterdate]

I haven't played much of Destiny, but I have played Dragon Age Inquisition multiplayer and it's easier to win by yourself in that kind of gameplay (like Call of Duty/Rainbow Six too, it's fine to be the best solo even if the team ends up losing). In FFXIV if an important role dies, everyone wipes, and it can get frustrating fast. Certainly, having to know all the boss mechanics adds another layer of stress to some of the fights in FFXIV as well. Some vets have a problem rushing in headlong without even checking if anyone is going in blind! I think I heard in Destiny there are some players who rush like that, but I've also heard how much people actually try to help newbies in some fights in that game. In FFXIV it often seems that people just want to "do their daily dungeon duties" and be done with it and it can ruin the experience for new players that they get paired with. When I first started that happened to me a lot. The tank would just run quickly through the whole dungeon leaving everyone behind. I ended up starting to level a tank role myself just so I could actually experience the dungeon (even though I much prefer my Lancer DPS class for the aesthetics). *sigh* Well, I can always watch a Let's Play if I want the rest of the story without the hassle 😔 I don't play often enough anyway.

Destiny seems fun, I enjoy the lore I happen to hear about it. I don't think I could get into actually playing it though, it seems like so much has happened already!

Thanks! I couldn't get the image out of my head so I had to draw it 😂

[pauraque]

I only got to level 40 or so in FFXIV before deciding it wasn't really for me. I do have friends who play, and I was able to do dungeons with them, which is always more fun than pugging, but the story didn't interest me that much and I agree with you that the endless talking and long cutscenes got tedious. I thought the problem might be that it was my first FF game so I wasn't already invested, but then people told me that each game in the series has a completely separate plot/world, so I guess that wasn't it? Maybe it's just the general style of storytelling that didn't work for me.

I play WoW, and interestingly enough, for all the ferocious arguments about which of the two is superior, WoW has exactly the same problem with new players in dungeons that FFXIV does. Both games incentivize experienced players to re-run content that is boring and trivial to them, and many players assume everyone else is also experienced and just want to get the dungeon over with quickly. This makes queueing for dungeons stressful and bewildering for new players. I always try to be newbie-friendly in pugs and not assume that everyone has already run everything, but I can't set the pace unless I'm tanking, which is rarely the case, so there's only so much I can do.

And even though I do know the dungeons, it's not fun for me either to be dragged through them by some hotshot tank who pulls the entire goddamn room whether the group can handle it or not. I main a healer, and I actually sometimes feel bad for carrying tanks who are severely overpulling and taking way more damage than they should, because what's going to happen when they requeue and get someone who's new to healing? They're going to overpull again, die, and blame the healer, because they think the way they pull is fine. The healer gets discouraged and never queues as heals again, and then DPS sit in queue wondering why it's taking forever to find a healer. It's lose-lose for the whole community.

So, yeah, anyway! I also vastly prefer playing with people I know. I was actually just discussing this with one of the people I play with. We were talking about how running with friends gives you much more of a chance to actually learn the dungeons, since you're not just flailing through them at breakneck speed with impatient people who assume you know everything. I find it so much more rewarding to figure things out together and take the time to get and give real explanations when someone doesn't know something. It makes the game a team effort--as group content should be!--rather than everyone rushing and trampling over people to "get theirs".

[alaterdate]

Completely understand, the story in the beginning is pretty lackluster if not downright boring. I've mostly been looking forward to meeting characters from the later game. I think I've just got a small case of FOMO when it comes to this game.

And even though I do know the dungeons, it's not fun for me either to be dragged through them by some hotshot tank who pulls the entire goddamn room whether the group can handle it or not.
This is one of the most annoying things about dungeons! I took up a tank class myself to do some dungeons because I was tired of being rushed around! It's even annoying as a DPS. Guess it's just an MMO problem :^\ I commend you for playing a healer in an MMO seems too stressful for me.

The culture with FFXIV seems to be that people expect you've watched a video of every dungeon and mastered it before even running it, which is eugh, it's like homework for videogames. I understand that not all of the mechanics are intuitive, but there's a chat feature and ready-checks. However, I have seen people get angry when someone mentions in chat that it's their first run :^( It'd definitely be a better experience with friends. Otherwise, the main priority is being nice to others, which should be a given!

[pauraque]

I actually don't find healing stressful, but I've been doing it for a long time. Fortunately I was able to learn with guild groups that were much more forgiving than randos might have been. I find tanking the most intimidating role by far and didn't even attempt it until I'd been playing MMOs for years, so I'm impressed that you're willing to go for it!

"You could have watched a video/read a guide" is also a common retort in WoW when people say they're new or don't know things. Which... I guess I have a certain perspective on, because I used to be a raid leader for pretty high-level content, and I did do that 'homework' of making sure I understood the fights before we even zoned in -- because if someone else didn't understand, I was the one they were going to ask for help! And sometimes the mechanics are truly complex and can't be summed up in a few words, and are hard enough to execute even if you know exactly what to do, such that most people would not have the time or the patience to learn solely through trial and error.

BUT when you're talking about basic dungeon content that is tuned for random groups to be able to complete in 20 minutes, you're not going to have that level of complexity. At that level, most things really can be explained in a sentence if you know the fights. And not only do I find it disappointing that many people aren't willing to do that, I also think it is silly that anyone would go in with the expectation that others should have done the level of research that high-end raiders would do when it's so far from being necessary, and may actually be counterproductive. (Dungeon bosses typically do a lot of Stuff that is intuitive or low-impact enough not to bother explaining, with maybe one crucial thing that you have to get right, so comprehensive guides can actually obscure the most useful part of the information, IME.)

[alaterdate]

I actually don't find healing stressful...I find tanking the most intimidating role by far...
Oh!? Interesting how my mind has framed it the other way around. I've not even tried healing at all, but perhaps I'll give it a whirl at least once and see if I like it.

I completely understand studying up on the mechanics for high-level content or difficult optional fights, but just doing basic story content I've seen people abandon runs, like geeze we are just trying to get through the story, sorry you've done this one 345 times and know everything *sigh* I don't even play often enough to justify spending my time studying dungeons.....
I would never try to do high-level content with randos on this game I cannot imagine that turning out well :^/
If I do continue to play I think cross-server play is going to become available in the future then I could do tougher content with friends :^)

[pauraque]

I think I find tanking intimidating because of being out in front and initiating pulls, so I feel self-conscious and worry if I'm going too fast or too slow or positioning the mobs poorly. DPS and healing are more reactive--you hit what the tank pulls or heal the damage they take--and that feels less pressuring to me.

I hope FFXIV gets cross server grouping soon! WoW has had that for a long time and it's sooooo helpful not having to deal with friends being stuck on different servers anymore.

[batman]

ARR is the worst in terms of dungeon design and reliance -- there's more dungeons in ARR than in two expacs combined and some of them are really bad. While Copperbell and ... I forget the one where you have a heavy + slow effect in the corridor before the final boss are bad (I think we nicknamed it the Friday Afternoon Dungeon), Castrum and Prae are so bad because if you're a first time sprout playing it you're going to die and then just do cutscenes back to back.

In terms of the game's narration, I wasn't super thrilled about ARR mainly because all of the characters feel like ciphers, but Heavensward is when you start getting more interesting character work going on. I strongly recommend when you're in Ishgard, if you haven't already, picking up the Dark Knight job. It doesn't have to be your main class, but the job quest has really interesting writing and narrative devices in it.

What classes are you playing?

Also, if it helps: Shadowbringers removes the requirement to form up parties for dungeons at all. I'm doing each dungeon with the Scions which is a delight. Alisaie's love for the LB2 button will never get old.

[alaterdate]

ARR is a test of patience and tenacity.... Also I did not expect Alphinaud to be so insufferable lol. I like him, but... hahha.

I've only been playing Lancer and Gladiator. I want to go Dragoon. I'm obsessed with sticking with one class even though I figure most people level them up across the board but—my aesthetics! I'll try out Dark Knight though!

Shadowbringers removes the requirement to form up parties for dungeons at all.
Music to my ears! Perhaps it's strange that I want to tackle this MMO game solo, but it already feels like a solo game that makes me do a group project once in a while and we all know how group projects suck.
Alisaie is so feisty of course she would go for the Limit Break 🤣

[batman]

It really, really is. My friend was popcorncat.giffing me as I complained about Alphinaud in ARR because he was so insufferable and how everyone seemed to fawn to him just because of who his grandfather was. Then I got to Ishgard and everyone was like "who is this infant child and who cares who your father was, you're an idiot. Now go collect some firewood so we don't freeze". It was very refreshing.

Dragoon looks really fun - I want to try that one out next! The game gives EXP buffs for levelling alt classes depending on the difference between your main and alt class: I swapped from scholar to white mage at level 65 and caught up after about two days of casual levelling, and white mage starts at level 1. This is because in the last two expacs the game attaches plot and character events to role quests (so you get plot if you are a caster, healer, tank, and/or melee class and if you are all four you get all the plot). I'm interested to know how Dragoon is to play! Dancer is pretty fun if you like RNG too.

The Trusts have been a godsend for me on several levels. I have to learn mechanics, because if I fail them I die, but I learn them at my own pace and without the rest of the party having to wait for me. But more importantly, I'm Australian and currently on a US server (as Materia doesn't start up until next week) so I am 14 hours ahead of most people - I am always waiting to queue my dungeons and raids. Anything that means I can just continue story progression is fantastic. Also Alisaie is a delight.

Oh! That reminds me: did anyone take you through Coils? If not, what server are you on?

[alaterdate]

Alphinaud getting smacked down a few hundred pegs!? We love to see it.

you get plot if you are a caster, healer, tank, and/or melee class and if you are all four you get all the plot
Oh, that's interesting! A reason to branch out.

I'm on Hyperion (Primal). I haven't done any of the Coils. I'm still using the Free Trial and not sure if I want to actually get the game so I haven't done any of the more intensive stuff. Mostly MSQ, GLA & LNC quests, the Hunting Log and dallying around. I honestly don't play often either, I binge it when I can (and all the talking + walking back and forth frustrates me when I 'lose' all my hours on it lol).